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Crepuscular | March 31st, 2016, 2:58 pm | |
Boiling Springs, PA Posts: 923 | Nice Jason. I have a couple questions and maybe that's because my reading comprehension sucks. First, what do you mean by the fish "reacted" to a prey item? Does that mean the fish actively attempted to eat, or some other reaction? Second, How far away is the distance to the most distant prey item? I don't have a good take on the distance scale. | |
Troutnut | March 31st, 2016, 4:25 pm | |
Administrator Bellevue, WAPosts: 2737 | First, what do you mean by the fish "reacted" to a prey item? The yellow dots represent the estimated position of each prey item at the moment when the fish first began moving toward it, i.e. "reacted" to it. This is assumed to be an estimate of where the fish first detected the item, too. It's different from the position at which the fish actually caught the item. The distance scales are relative to the sizes of the fish, which are stated in the post, but ballpark I'd say the grayling were detecting things within 1-2 feet subsurface and about 3-5 feet on the surface, dollies mostly within a foot, and juvenile Chinook mostly within six inches. | |
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist | ||
Entoman | March 31st, 2016, 4:36 pm | |
Northern CA & ID Posts: 2604 | Fascinating! | |
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
Jmd123 | March 31st, 2016, 6:26 pm | |
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611 | AHA, at long last an explanation as to why I so much prefer dry flies to nymphs! Of course, it is also due to a lack of expertise with nymphs that many others on here possess...but having tried nymphing on many an occasion, especially earlier in my formative years, I just always had more success with dries, hatch or no hatch. My default behavior on a quiet-looking stretch of water is to search with an elkhair caddis, or sometimes an Adams, and it is amazing how many fish will hit out of nowhere under those conditions. Now it makes sense! Jonathon | |
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
DayTripper | March 31st, 2016, 8:07 pm | |
Northern MI Posts: 70 | Bravo, love it. Thanks for sharing. Definitely thought provoking. | |
TimCat | March 31st, 2016, 10:22 pm | |
Alanson, MI Posts: 121 | Very nice. Your preliminary conclusions are a good read. Looking forward to more of you and your team's analysis! I've never seen any studies like this at all. It's interesting to see that even though there was "a moderately thick Cinygmula hatch", the grayling still mostly went for food directly in front of it. It wasn't really looking up much, although it was eager to move further when it did. Another reason that the surface targets may have not been on an even plane, could be due to the fact that the insect was emerging still (?). As many have experienced, soft hackle patterns at the end of a drift seem to get some harder strikes. It's always been assumed that emerging insects in their shucks, or while they're trying to get above the surface tension, attract their attention more. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing! I think this is pretty innovative stuff, although I am not part of any biology communities. Ha | |
"If I'm not going to catch anything, then I 'd rather not catch anything on flies" - Bob Lawless | ||
Crepuscular | March 31st, 2016, 11:06 pm | |
Boiling Springs, PA Posts: 923 | Thanks Jason really cool stuff.The distance scales are relative to the sizes of the fish, which are stated in the post See I told you about my reading skills... | |
Jmd123 | April 2nd, 2016, 1:27 am | |
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611 | So I do see a difference between fish species here a little bit, but then again it could be the sample size and perhaps these fish had individual, idiosyncratic behavior...? Raises a lot of interesting questions, no end for research...how do brookies, browns, rainbows, cutthroats compare? Larger vs. smaller fish, stillwater fish vs. stream fish...looks like you'll need some grad students to help you with all of the projects, Jason! Jonathon | |
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
Wbranch | April 2nd, 2016, 8:17 am | |
York & Starlight PA Posts: 2733 | Thanks for sharing this with us. Your observations and comments suggest that employing a dry & dropper setup could increase an angler's chances for a take and success. While I seldom run a dry & dropper on the Delaware system (I'm more inclined to run two dry flies there, either two identical or the first fly larger and tail fly much smaller. Then the larger fly acts as an indicator for me) In Montana I run a dry and dropper at least 75% of the time with the length of the tippet for the tail fly as long as 3' depending on the water depth. Most of the time though the tippet length is less than 12" because I'm only casting to rising fish but if it is very windy I often can't get the fly where I want it but the little BH nymph gets into the water column high enough that the trout often eats it. | |
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
Jmd123 | April 2nd, 2016, 1:45 pm | |
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611 | OK Matt, a question for you (and others): when fishing a dry and dropper rig, which fly do the fish hit more often, the dry or the dropper? I've never tried a two-fly rig but I keep seeing how popular it is with a lot of fisherman. Makes sense that your "indicator" is an actual fly that the fish can also get hooked on! Jonathon | |
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
Wbranch | April 3rd, 2016, 1:51 am | |
York & Starlight PA Posts: 2733 | Jonathon, Firstly I need to edit my comment about "I run a dropper at least 75% of the time" (in Montana) I've thought more about this and I'd say my use of a dropper with a dry is no more than 50% of the time. I've never kept an accurate count of how many fish I catch on the dropper versus the dry fly but I'd guess it is about 50/50. | |
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
TimCat | April 3rd, 2016, 4:59 am | |
Alanson, MI Posts: 121 | Jonathon, I've read that the dry part of the rig can also work as an attractor and be useful, even if the fish don't go for it most of the time. The fish notices the surface fly, but will often take the nymph instead. I've also heard Tom Rosenbauer talk about this on the orvis podcast I think. I've never personally tried it either, though it can kinda be supported by the animations in a way. The surface activity could bring a fish from further away, but they might go for the easy nymph instead, because it definitely can't fly away/is the easier meal. | |
"If I'm not going to catch anything, then I 'd rather not catch anything on flies" - Bob Lawless | ||
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