Toughest Trout Water, Page 3

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TheMidge	November 10th, 2008, 1:07 pm
Massachusetts Posts: 16	I fished way more in the past year than I ever have the rest of my life, including a 16 day trip to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming. I have to say the toughest water I've ever fished is the Swift River right here in Massachusetts. Big fish in crystal clear water that see a lot of flies. I have fished probably 35 days this year and caught two fish, although there are always fish rising. This stream makes places like Henry's Fork and Flat Creek seem like pay as you go fish ponds.

GONZO	November 10th, 2008, 1:29 pm
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 1681	Big fish in crystal clear water that see a lot of flies. Although there are always some exceptions, I think that pretty much sums up what makes a tough trout stream tough! This stream makes places like Henry's Fork and Flat Creek seem like pay as you go fish ponds. Thanks for that one, Dave. Although there are certainly some fairly "technical" streams in the West, I've yet to fish one that didn't seem downright generous when compared to difficult Eastern streams. Pressure is relative and has a somewhat different meaning in the context of most Western streams.

TheMidge	November 11th, 2008, 7:16 am
Massachusetts Posts: 16	Ha! you're right. After fishing out west this summer, every stream on the east coast could be called "tough"

JAD	November 12th, 2008, 8:36 am
Alexandria Pa Posts: 362	Hi Guys ("technical" streams in the West, I've yet to fish one that didn't seem downright generous when compared to difficult Eastern streams) I have to agree I have found the same thing in the west on the most part. .It makes for a nice change :) JaD
	They fasten red (crimson red) wool around a hook, and fix onto the wool two feathers which grow under a cock’s wattles, and which in colour are like wax. Radcliffe's Fishing from the Earliest Times,

Falsifly	November 12th, 2008, 11:28 am
Hayward, WI. Posts: 661	I would like to thank all you guys out east for critiquing the western water. You are absolutely right, the picking’s easy. I commend you for your dedication to fish only the most wary of trout. I understand the reluctance to head west; I mean where is the challenge? Perhaps more of the western types would head east if we could only get past the fish in a barrel mentality. Some day I hope to tire of the one hundred fish days and aspire to the one fish in a hundred days. Only then will I come to fully appreciate and understand the importance of; the perfect cast, the perfect fly, the perfect presentation, which can only be learned on eastern waters. Maybe I would enroll in four years of Latin so that; I too, could better understand the bug which seems so paramount to the eastern trout. Maybe I would enroll in fly tying lessons so that; I too, could imitate the last hair on a Gnat’s ---. I understand those eastern trout are quite particular. I envy the shoulder to shoulder camaraderie; with that many experts I’m sure to learn something. What do ya say guys, would you mind if we came out east to learn to fish? Respectfully, Falsifly
	Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."

RleeP	November 12th, 2008, 1:29 pm
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland Posts: 398	I don't how anyone who says Western water is easy could have ever spent much time on the damned Metolius in Central Oregon. That place gives me fits..

GONZO	November 12th, 2008, 3:30 pm
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 1681	Oops, there I go being insensitive, again. Falsifly, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Wisconsin was a Western state. However, I do appreciate sarcasm as much as the next fellow. East or West (or in Wisconsin), some streams are inherently more difficult than others. This is true even in untrammeled wilderness where the trout have never seen a fly. My only point--to the extent that I had one--was that fishing pressure tends to compound the difficulty of any stream, and pressure seems to be a bit higher in places where people outnumber cows. This seems like a fairly straightforward observation, but it was never meant to belittle Western fishing (which I love and often envy).

Falsifly	November 12th, 2008, 9:37 pm
Hayward, WI. Posts: 661	Falsifly, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Wisconsin was a Western state. Gonzo, The last time I checked the map, Wisconsin was west of PA. However, I do appreciate sarcasm as much as the next fellow. Gonzo, You have insulted me, am I to believe that that you have construed my comments as sarcasm towards you? I can assure you that I hold you in the highest esteem. pressure seems to be a bit higher in places where people outnumber cows. And now you refer me to a cow.
	Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."

GONZO	November 12th, 2008, 11:38 pm
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 1681	OK, I'll play along. The last time I checked the map, Wisconsin was west of PA. Yes, but so is Mongolia if you just keep heading in that direction. By capitalizing "Western," I meant to refer to the western half of the US. Given a choice between East and West, I think of Wisconsin as being in the East. However, I now realize that some might take offense at my geography, so perhaps Midwest is a better term. Does that mean you are in the middle of the West? I'm confused. ...am I to believe that you have construed my comments as sarcasm towards you? I can assure you that I hold you in the highest esteem. OK, but a cynic (not me, but a cynic) might think that was more sarcasm. A classic movie dialogue between Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn goes like this: (Grant) "There's an old riddle about two tribes of Indians--the Whitefeet always tell the truth, and the Blackfeet always lie. So one day you meet an Indian. You ask him if he's a truthful Whitefoot or a lying Blackfoot. He tells you he's a truthful Whitefoot, but which one is he?" (Hepburn) "Why couldn't you just look at his feet?" (Grant) "Because he's wearing moccasins." (Hepburn) "Oh. Well, then he's a truthful Whitefoot, of course." (Grant) "Why not a lying Blackfoot?" (Hepburn) "Which one are you?" (Grant) "Whitefoot, of course." And now you refer to me a cow. No, but I also meant no insult to cows.

RleeP	November 13th, 2008, 6:06 am
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland Posts: 398	>>My only point--to the extent that I had one--was that fishing pressure tends to compound the difficulty of any stream, and pressure seems to be a bit higher in places where people outnumber cows.>> Just a couple general observations on WI, where I have done probably 95% of my trout fishing over the past 10 years (albeit almost all south of a Eau Claire to Green Bay line..) as compared to PA, where I fished pretty extensively for about 30 years. 1) On average, I don't think the fish in WI spring creeks are as difficult to catch consistently as those in PA spring creeks (or the more common to PA "hybrid" limestone chemistry/freestone substrate stream type as exemplified by streams like Big Fishing Creek or Penns, for example). Man, that's a tortured sentence.. I think some of this is pressure-related and I also think some of it might be related to fish density and hence, competition. There are exceptions though. The two "name" spring creeks closest to Madison are as difficult as anything I've fished in PA, again perhaps indicating that pressure is a significant factor. 2) I actually think the streams in WI's Central Sands region over in sort of the east-center of the state are day in and day out more difficult to do well on than the WI spring creeks, at least for me. 3) All this stuff about relative difficulty is, IMO, very subjective at best. The "any given day" factor is huge as are things like how much attention I am paying at any time, how much I bear down on making good casts and taking the time to read the water, etc. I've even found that my success goes up significantly if I hold my mouth a certain way while fishing, open about 11/16" appears to be about optimal although admittedly problematic during peak gnat season...

CaseyP	November 13th, 2008, 7:12 am
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA Posts: 653	this blue box game is fun! 1) On average, I don't think the fish in WI spring creeks are as difficult to catch consistently as those in PA spring creeks (or the more common to PA "hybrid" limestone chemistry/freestone substrate stream type as exemplified by streams like Big Fishing Creek or Penns, for example). Man, that's a tortured sentence.--Rleep just finished reviewing a grammar book, and your posting gave me a big laugh! only on Troutnut... now back to the thread...in general, folks, are smaller streams more likely to be technical than larger ones, and therefore harder? or are there rivers which by the nature of their beds present the angler with hydraulics from hell? or has it all to do with the fish?
	"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra

UPTroutBum	November 13th, 2008, 9:12 am
Marquette, MI Posts: 33	I think smaller streams are much easier to FIND the trout, there are a couple likely places they will be depending on the water temp, level, and time of year. Easier to catch? Only reason I think so is they tend to be smaller and well dumber. In the big rivers, water can be deceiving, and usually bigger older and wiser.
	" The true fisherman approaches the first day of fishing season with all the sense of wonder and awe of a child approaching Christmas." John Voelker

TheMidge	November 14th, 2008, 9:24 am
Massachusetts Posts: 16	sorry if I started something here. I caught a whole lot of fish out west on my trip, and had a blast. Not saying that the fishing in the east is better, it's not even the same ball game. Different technique's, different flies, different gear. I do probably 80% of my fishing back east on a 3 or 4 weight, but couldn't punch either through the wind on the South Fork. On the other hand, if I threw a size 8 stimulator at the Y pool on the Swift River, the hole pool would be spooked. Like I said, just a different game. For me, personally, the West was easier

Martinlf	November 15th, 2008, 3:54 pm
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 3233	Casey, I think each stream must be assessed on its own merits. Some small streams are very tough, the Letort in and above Carlisle, for example. Some big streams are tough; the upper West Branch of the Delaware comes to mind here. It depends on the water, the fish, and those who educate them.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell

Bryanater1	January 5th, 2012, 7:59 pm
michigan Posts: 1	i fish the manitee all the time and its not that hard and im 14 and i catch nice size browns
	brybry

Aaron7_8	January 5th, 2012, 10:11 pm
Helena Montana Posts: 115	I fished Depuys Last early spring. What I noticed was in the swifter water of the lower half the fishing was extremely easy, I had a fish on three out of my first five casts. On the upper section of that spring creek where the water is very slow and glassy I saw every fish and caught none, while I fished almost an identical amount of time. I think it has more to do with water type than anything some types of water are just easier to fish in my humble opinion.

PaulRoberts	January 5th, 2012, 10:18 pm
Colorado Posts: 1776	Flat water, bright sun, and educated fish -Be it trout, bass, carp, stripers, ... Another tough one is very strong current, in which your fly is presented appropriately in very short duration and space -be it trout, salmon, stripers, ...

Jesse	January 5th, 2012, 10:28 pm
Posts: 378	Im a firm believer in western waters being much easier to catch trout in as opposed to eastern spring or freestone creeks. When i started going to college in Montana two years ago, that was the craziest part of it. I had all these high expectations about the 'insane fishing' that i was going to encounter and all the new challenges i would have to over come in order to catch the sought after western trout. That wasn't true at all. It was actually the total opposite; finding fish, and larger fish more often cam easier out west. I mean, in the warmer months, is all you have to do is chuck a big dry pattern (lets say an adams) during any hatch, midstream, and the chances are you will get a strike. I know not all the rivers are like this, but i have been here for two years now and fished all over the state, and catching fish seems to come much easier. I'm not saying that there aren't easy watersheds to fish on the east coast, because there definitely is, just not as many. The most challenging river i have ever fished is a small tributary stream to a tailwater i fish in the southeast. It's cold enough to hold fish year round, and it's simply tough. Like it has already been said, catching a fish here requires a perfect cast, presentation, drift, mend...everything. It's my favorite type though, i love a challenge!
	Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after. http://www.filingoflyfishing.com

Jesse	January 5th, 2012, 10:32 pm
Posts: 378	Also, i can't forget to mention that i ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fishing out west for everything it's worth. Despite my feelings for it being easier to catch trout out west, the fishing is epic. Fishing hoppers all through the summer for MONSTER bank cruisers, thats tough to beat.
	Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after. http://www.filingoflyfishing.com

Gutcutter	January 5th, 2012, 10:34 pm
Pennsylvania Posts: 470	Flat water, bright sun, and educated fish... Sounds like an average day in the Keys to me...
	All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad. -Robert Traver, Trout Madness

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